senrable's blog

It’s been awhile since I completed my last installment, and I figure now is as good a time as any to continue. 

The next situation is Boy likes girl, girl does not like boy.

This situation works similarly at the start for the boy as the previous (boy likes girl, girl does not like boy), because the boy does not know that the girl has no interest in him, so he proceeds as an (otherwise) interested guy.

Here’s where it gets tricky, though – some guys are easy to read and others are a bit more difficult.  When the girl begins to suspect that the guy is a little more interested than friendship, but isn’t positive (and she only desires friendship), what should she do?

1. Immediately have a DTR with the guy – it doesn’t matter how awkward, things must be straight.
2. Ask his best friend straight out whether he likes you and then tell him (the best friend) that you so definitely don’t like the boy in question.
3. Ask a girlfriend to do recon for you – whether through #2 or her asking the guy directly.
4. Try to make it as obvious as possible that you are not interested.
5. Be careful about how you act around him to avoid sending the wrong message, but just wait it out.

My general opinion is somewhere between #4 and 5 – try to kindly and with grace let the guy know (with actions) that you aren’t interested, and if he brings anything up, with grace explain that while you are flattered, you simply aren’t interested.  No explanation required, because that can almost leave the door open and keep his hopes up.  Don’t say “Not right now” or “I don’t think it’s the right thing for me now,” but at the same time don’t say “Ugh, no, I’d never, ever, ever date you, even if you were the last person on earth.”  Remember, grace.

I had a friend in college who was really, really in like with this girl.  This girl was good friends with the guy, but wasn’t quite sure how she felt about him.  So, when the brave guy sat down with her to lay his cards on the table, she let him know she wasn’t interested at that time.  However, in the way that she said it, she left the possibility open so, being the persistent guy that he was, he proceeded to ask her out two more times (at least) over the course of the next year.  It ended up being hard for both of them – her having to say no each time and him having to summon the courage to ask her each time (and getting his heart broken more when she ended up dating another friend).  Just say “No, I’m not interested, but thanks for asking, I know how much courage it took for you to ask”, or something along those lines.

Thoughts, comments, experiences would be welcomed!

Before I begin breakdown of the first situation, let’s look at some of the activities that may fall under the category of “shady” behavior.  I’ve taken these all from either my own experience or the experience of friends.

• Long, frequent talks on the phone (is there a perceived regularity to the schedule?)
• Late night IMs when both really should be have gone to sleep hours before
• “Doing stuff” – hanging out regularly together after group activities have ended
• Always sitting next to each other, whether at dinner, church, friend’s houses, etc.
• Offering rides to the other person to most/all events when you live/work nowhere near where the other person lives/works
• Taking out of town trips together alone and not with the intent of meeting up with others (can someone give me an example of when this is not shady?)
• Inviting the other person out to events with non-mutual friends on multiple occassions

While individual instances of the above are not inherantly shady, in series, they definitely add up to affected emotions for one or both persons.  Let me stress the repetitive nature of these things, individual instances of even a couple of these do not mean that there is definite interest on the part of the initiating person!  For example, sometimes an invitation to a football game is just that, nothing more .

Boy likes girl, girl likes boy

On the face of it, this seems to be one of the easier situations of the four, but it can still be pretty annoying for one or both at the time.  I’m going to go out on a limb and suggest that it is most annoying for the girl,  because many of us girls were brought up to NEVER actually be the first to speak up about how we feel.  Girl likes boy, thinks that boy may like her, but doesn’t know how to get out of the shadiness stage. 

T/O for one quick defintion – Dating: being in an established relationship with the intention of figuring out whether you want to marry this person.  You can only be dating one person at a time. 

This definition leaves me a bit wanting, as I have used “dating” in the past to refer to going out on dates with someone (dinner/movie/etc. where one person picks up the bill for both – usually the one who did the inviting).  But, I’d like to use dating vice “courting,” due to some false connotations in our culture.  Dating and courting are synonomous for me, in this context.

The boy may be feeling nervous to actually speak up, may not be totally sure that this is the girl he wants to date, let alone even think about marrying.  Or, he may be worried that she doesn’t actually like him and wants to get more evidence first.

However, if the “shadiness” period lasts too long, the girl may lose interest, wondering if she was just over-analyzing the situation.  She may do this either because she is frustrated or she wants to protect herself from getting too hurt.  Or, there’s always the possibility that another guy may come along that makes his intentions more clear or obvious.

Here are my questions to you:

1. How long is “too long” for the shady period?  8 months (Jay: how did she ever put up with you?), 4 months?
2. What can a girl do to help move out of the shady period without initiating the infamous DTR?
3. Are there actually realistic ways to get to know one another without engaging in the above mentioned “shady” activities?

Alternate Title: “Shadiness”

This topic is one that I’ve been pondering about for a while, but a discussion with a friend recently really prompted me to write down my thoughts, if only for my own edification (and to get feedback to see if I’m the only one that feels this way).

I’m going to start with an assumption that for females there are the following states with the male sex (let’s assume neither party knows where the other stands):

1. Boy likes girl, girl likes boy
2. Boy likes girl, girl does not like boy
3. Boy does not like girl, girl likes boy
4. Boy does not like girl, girl does not like boy

Granted, there can be different stages between each of these states, but that’s not really the main focus of this post.  If you accept those assumptions, we can move forward to the actual topic.

I was first introduced to the concept (or the name for the concept) of shadyness by my friend “A,” when I asked him whether he had ever dated a friend “B.”  He said that while they never officially dated, there was definitely some “shadiness.”  Both are now happily married, so evidently the shadiness ended amicably (they are still friends) and they moved on.  But when does shadiness end and how can it be prevented (to the greatest extent possible)?

I’m going to start a series (maybe 4 more pieces?) on the topic of shadiness.  But, one more thing before I sign off, let’s get a good definition of shadiness (with regards to males and females):

Shadiness: When neither the boy or the girl knows for certain how the other party feels about them (negatively or positively) and any perceived motives on the part of the second person affect emotions and actions of the first person.

Feel free to comment to refine any of the above.

I got an email forwarded to me tonight from my mom.  It came from their vet in Denver.  When I started calculating how long we/they have known him, it’s been almost 18 years.  We started taking our dog to him when we moved to Colorado in Feb. 1990 and probably stayed with him five or six years after that, until he moved to Denver to start a new practice.  Then, when my parents moved back to Colorado (to Denver) a year and a half ago, they looked him up so that they could take their cat to him.  He’s been great and my parents have become friends with him.  It’s just so strange thinking that they’ve had a business relationship with him for almost 18 years (though on and off, depending on geography).  I can only hope that I can even maintain friendships that long, that’s amazing!

He has seen us/them through:
4 dogs (three that we had during our 9 1/2 years in Colorado + 1 puppy they got a year ago)
1 cat (who he incidentally gave my mom hints on how to pick out at the Humane Society)

Don’t even ask about their dentist, who they still travel down to Colorado Springs (now 2.5 hours away) to visit.  We’ve known him for 18 years as well and I have some great dirt on his kids (my friends growing up).  Likewise, they probably have better dirt on me .  Oh, and their accountant, who just retired on them.

Having moved a lot as a kid (5 cities by age 8 and 6 by age 18), 18 years of relationships (though not continuous) never ceases to amaze me!  I have a tough time relating to people who can still go home at holidays and hang out with people they went to high school with, let alone elementary school and junior high.  At this point, the person that I have known the longest and still keep in touch (talk or email) with is a friend from 9th grade, who I have known for 11.5 years.  And that seems like a long time.

I took a look at my site statistics today and found the search queries that led people to my site very interesting. Some I can figure out (some are names listed on the sidebar), others I just scratch my head at. Particularly interesting are #s 14, 22, & 28.

“Quad Cities, twice as nice as the Twin Cities” – SportsCenter

While I don’t believe I’ve ever been to the Twin Cities, the Quad Cities do have Whitey’s Ice Cream. And, my mom came out of the Quad Cities, so it has to be pretty good, albeit boring .

A New York Times article on the wearing of full-face veils in Britain got me started thinking about the effects of the prevailing attitude on other modestly clad women. The following quote got me thinking:

David Sexton, a columnist for The Evening Standard, wrote recently that the niqab [full face covering] was an affront and that Britain had been “too deferential.”

“It says that all men are such brutes that if exposed to any more normally clothed women, they cannot be trusted to behave — and that all women who dress any more scantily like that are indecent,” Mr. Sexton wrote. “It’s abusive, a walking rejection of all our freedoms.”

The problem with this statement is that this same yardstick could be applied to women who choose to dress modestly, however they define “modesty”. It says that each woman is making a judgment against fellow women when they select their clothing. If I choose to not wear a skirt above a certain length (take fingertip, for example), am I saying that any woman who wears a skirt shorter than fingertip length is immodest? Am I abusing others’ freedoms by my own free choice of clothing selections? Am I saying that if men are exposed to a shorter length skirt, they cannot be trusted to behave? No, I am saying that for my self, I am choosing to wear what I deem modest, and what (I hope) can serve the men around me.

I’ll admit that I myself may not always select clothing that my grandmother would find modest (to select her as a theoretical barometer), but I attempt to avoid clothing that would not only suggest certain things about my morality, but also clothing that will protect the hearts of the men around me. And, please, serve me by telling me when I haven’t made correct choices.

One view expressed in the article saddened me, though:

A handful of young women wore the niqab, and they spoke effusively about their reasons. “Wearing the niqab means you will get a good grade and go to paradise,” said Hodo Muse, 19, a Somali woman. “Every day people are giving me dirty looks for wearing it, but when you wear something for God you get a boost.”

How sad is it that she is relying on her works to earn favor with God?

“For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.” – Eph. 2:8-9

I don’t know if I am more sad when Gmail is unavailable or this:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-hMU8dwbtI[/youtube]

This was a SNL “commercial” last week and I immediately thought of a friend. We’ll keep him anonymous, unless he wants to come forward.